时间：2006年5月10日下午
地点：英国议会下院
时段：Prime Minister’s Questions
事件：Tony Blair vs David Cameron
Mr. David Cameron (Witney) (Con): I join the Prime Minister in paying tribute to the servicemen and women who died in Iraq. They were serving their country.
Three weeks ago, I asked the Prime Minister about the crisis in children’s hospitals. He said that everything was fine so can he explain why the Minister responsible for hospitals has resigned?
The Prime Minister: The Minister for hospitals has certainly not resigned, as far as I am aware, in respect of anything to do with children’s hospitals. The right hon. Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron) did indeed ask me about children’s hospitals and I explained that there were issues in respect of the payment-by-results tariff. Discussions are continuing between the hospitals that wrote to the Department of Health, and I hope that those discussions will result in a satisfactory conclusion.
Mr. Cameron: The right hon. Member for Liverpool, Wavertree (Jane Kennedy) was the Minister for hospitals and she has resigned. I know that things are bad, but the Prime Minister ought to know who is actually in his Government. She said that the Government’s reforms had resulted in the crisis at Alder Hey and her attempts to speak out had been overruled by No. 10.
Last week, I asked about dangerous foreign criminals who were released instead of deported. We were told that there were 79 who had committed serious offences. Then we were told that there were 90. This week we are told that there are 150. Can the Prime Minister guarantee that the number will not go up again?
The Prime Minister: The number has gone up simply because as the police investigate each of the cases, the details change— [Interruption.] That is perfectly obvious, if one thinks about it for a moment. However, of the 1,000 cases of foreign national prisoners who were part of the backlog that had built up over a considerable time, three quarters have been considered. Almost 600 deportation orders have been given and about 30 deportations are already under way. There are 126 of those people in detention. We will continue to work through the backlog, as I explained before, but I might just state to the right hon. Gentleman that now, as a result of the changes that have been put in place, all cases are considered before release. As I explained to him last week, there is a quite separate issue with which we must also deal, which is, in the end, at the heart of the matter: we need to ensure that those people who are convicted of a serious criminal offence and become foreign prisoners are deported, not retained in this country.
Mr. Cameron: If it is all going so well, why did the Prime Minister sack the Home Secretary? After three weeks of investigations, he still cannot tell us how many dangerous criminals who have committed serious offences are roaming the streets? Are not the crises in the health service and the criminal justice system symptoms of a Government who are paralysed? In the past three days, former Ministers have been queuing up to tell the Prime Minister that it is time to go. We have heard from the former Education Secretary, Pensions Secretary, terrorism Minister and local government Minister, and they have all said the same thing. Presumably the Prime Minister appointed them because of their judgment. Why does he think that he has lost their confidence?
The Prime Minister: If I can just go back to deal with the two policy issues that the right hon. Gentleman raised— [Interruption.] Well, I know that he is not very comfortable with policy. Actually, because I thought that we might be debating these types of issues, I asked my staff to look up what policies he has. I have found two: one on children’s clothes and one on chocolate oranges. Other than that, he does not seem to have any, so I am delighted to have a policy debate with him.
On the health service, in respect of children’s hospitals, there is an issue to do with payment by results and the tariff. At a meeting a few days ago we listened to the representations of the four hospitals that wrote to us, and we are satisfied that we can reach a satisfactory conclusion. I might just point out to the right hon. Gentleman that we are putting more money into the health service than ever before and getting better results than ever before, but he opposed that additional investment.
I have explained the situation regarding the foreign national prisoners to the right hon. Gentleman. As I said a moment or two ago, for the first time we now have in place a proper system that allows us to consider deportation prior to a prisoner’s release. However, as I said last week—I repeat it—in my view, there should be an automatic presumption of deportation for anyone convicted of a serious criminal offence, and I hope that he agrees with that.
Mr. Cameron: From that answer we can see that the Prime Minister will not even address the fact that he is losing the support of his party. He lives in a world best summed up by the analysis given to him about his local election results by the No. 10 planning committee. The leaked report said that
“people were angry with Tony because they love him so much, and they are angry because they think he might go”.
I think that that is what they call the view from the bunker.
Until a week ago, the Prime Minister was telling us that he would serve a full third term. Why did he change his mind?
The Prime Minister: It will not surprise the right hon. Gentleman to know that I have no intention of debating that with him—[Hon. Members: “Why not?”] Frankly, there are probably enough lining up to do that already.
What is interesting about this exchange is that policy is the one thing that the right hon. Gentleman does not want to talk about. I agree that it has been a difficult time for the Government, but, in the end, it is policy—policies on the economy, on investment in our public services, on things like the minimum wage and lifting children and pensioners out of poverty, on overseas aid and, yes, on the environment, on which he has already changed the policy he had a few weeks ago—that will determine the fate of this Government and the decision of the electorate at the next general election.
Mr. Cameron: The issue of how long the right hon. Gentleman stays in office is of key public interest. I remind him of the clearest pledge that he gave about this issue. He said:
“A full term is a full term and that is what it means”.
The right hon. Gentleman said that when he went to Khartoum. Presumably he wanted to see the place where Gordon was murdered— [Laughter.]
I am glad that I have put a smile on the face of the Deputy Prime Minister.
Will the Prime Minister unravel a mystery for us? Why does he not trust the Chancellor of the Exchequer to take over the Government now?
The Prime Minister: No doubt the right hon. Gentleman has been rehearsing those lines all morning. [ Interruption.] I think so. I thought that it was a little rehearsed.
I simply issue an invitation to debate policy. The right hon. Gentleman has mentioned two—one on the health service and one on law and order—but he is not really prepared to debate those matters. He is not the first Conservative leader either to call for or predict my departure. There were four others, but I am still here, and they are not.
Mr. Cameron: There is hardly a politician in this place who is not predicting the right hon. Gentleman’s departure. Has not the Prime Minister put himself in a Catch-22 situation? If he sets a timetable for leaving, he has told us that there will be paralysis. If he refuses to set a timetable, his Government will remain paralysed. Is it not becoming increasingly clear that he should go—and go soon?
The Prime Minister: I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that kind advice, which I am sure was meant in the interests of me and my party.
It is important for us to deliver our manifesto. That manifesto is about making sure that we keep a strong economy. We have the lowest interest rates and the lowest unemployment for decades. It is about delivering extra investment in the national health service and schools. It is also about improving the minimum wage, maternity pay and maternity rights. Further, as we shall see over the next few weeks, it is about sorting out the pensions issue and energy policy.
There is one difference between me and the right hon. Gentleman. I am here delivering the manifesto on which we were elected. The right hon. Gentleman wrote his party’s last manifesto, and now he does not stand by a word of it.
